MOUL

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Alah wrote:

BAD: I am in no way demanding that people be serious, fun-averse stiffs on the MOUL forum.

He doesn’t have to, there are plenty of us there to do it for him.

Alah wrote:

Hell, I think that people can be pretty silly there, and I have no problem with it. However, when you want to communicate a problem to those you feel are doing something inappropriate, silly jokes and sarcasm aren’t exactly the best tools. Straightforward, honest, and direct communication is far more productive, I find, than slinging insults and being flippant.

You tell them Alah! Never mind the fact that when said people tried to be serious about past situations to one another, all that happened was a lot of verbal ass kicking. But in the end isn’t that what it all comes down to?

Alah wrote:

As far as why I take everything so seriously, I try not to. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Perhaps the biggest reason I tend to be so serious in these situations is because it strikes me as an important characteristic for someone in charge to be able to be serious when discussing these matters. That said, I do tend to take Uru more seriously than others because to me, it’s more than just a game. D’ni is literally something that I grew up with. It’s a very special thing to me, and I can admittedly be somewhat protective of it. I do my best to stay out of conversations where that attitude is going to cause problems, which is why I tend to hang out where I do.

Shorter Alah: I surround myself with people and get in line to kiss and protect canon ass.

And in the world of Cyantology that is a healthy habit to practice.

Alah wrote:

Wutt: I apologize for not responding to your PM yesterday. I was at work when you sent it, and didn’t have the time to dedicate to writing what I felt would be an adequate response (in fact, I’m devoting entirely too much time to writing this response as it is). By the time I got home, other matters required my attention and your PM slipped off of my radar because, quite simply, I have a really terrible memory. It’s a crap excuse, but it’s the truth. If you want to see it as a personal sleight, that’s well within your rights. However, my lack of immediate response was out of concern that I wouldn’t be responding to you with the full attention I felt your concerns deserved, and I very much apologize for my later scatterbrainedness.

I knew there was a reason why I looked up to this guy, he has the same communication/apology skills as Greydragon!

Alah wrote:

Hoikas: I’m not entirely certain how much clearer I can make this point to you: I am trying to engage you, and others with your concerns, in a conversation because I’m willing to admit that there may be problems with the way the forum is being run that are a result of how the moderators are doing things.

There may be a problem, could also be taken to mean there may not be a problem. When I read it that way, I feel a lot better.

Alah wrote:

If my sole intent in opening a dialogue was to blame you for everything, I don’t think we’d be having any sort of conversation at all; I’d just be blaming you and not say a word elsewise. That said, I do appreciate that you’re willing to acknowledge that the problem is not as one-sided as it’s always made out to be, with the mods indiscriminately going after the Slackers whenever they say word one.

As you can see here he’s not attacking anyone, it’s just not in his personality to attack one group.

Alah wrote:

There is give and take, as well as shared responsibility, in any disagreement. With that understanding, can we move forward to discuss ways that we (meaning the Slackers and the MOUL mods) could avoid stepping on each others’ toes quite as often as we seem to? We keep going around in this dance of sarcasm, reaction, offended response (lather, rinse, repeat) and getting nowhere.

Shorter Alah: Would you slackers please stop pointing out our stupidity??? It’s so bad that our green mod text can hardly cover it up.

Alah wrote:

Regarding the UserKI discussions: while I see and readily acknowledge your point that D’mala got along just fine without the UserKI, discussions of UU seem to gravitate to the UserKI with some degree of regularity (D’mala also had the benefit of intermittent Cyan participation through the DRC, and other more immersion-friendly user contributions that somewhat obviated the need for it). I’m well aware that most of the UserKI and AdminKI functionality is completely inappropriate for MORE, but in the interest of allowing people to discuss that point and reach their own conclusions (something we are continually accused of preventing), we opted to permit the conversations to continue. Incidentally, pretty much everyone involved in the conversation has reached the same conclusion you and I had already arrived at. At the same time, we did attempt to steer the thread about when MORE would be released back to its original topic because the UserKI had nothing to do with the purpose of the thread, and discussing it in its own topic was more appropriate. Please don’t try to use this one instance as an example of the mods trying to squash any alternative views or obstruct the natural flow of conversation, and please understand that even we sometimes end up contributing to a discussion that may be better suited in another thread. It is not our goal to be intentionally inconsistent; we’re human, we make mistakes, and unfortunately I think the mandated green text does more to highlight our slip-ups and personal opinions than accentuate our comments when we have something official to say.

Cool! That means it’s ok to talk about hacking now! I always knew it was good to talk about it, really!

Alah wrote:

Thank you, also, for pointing out what sarcasm can be used for. Between you and Tomala, I’m becoming something of an expert on the subject (see, I can do it too!).

I’m insulted that he thinks I’m using sarcasm. Doesn’t he realize I’m emulating him just to get his message of love and peace (and I understand that is his message) throughout the community?

Alah wrote:

I’m well aware of the fact that sarcasm seems to be the weapon of choice for you and others when it comes to addressing problems. However, perhaps you should stop and consider whether your tone is helping matters or not when little seems to have changed as a result of your witty commentary. I’m not trying to push this back on you, because I guess by now we (the mods) ought to be used to your way of talking about your problems, but if sarcasm hasn’t gotten your point across in the past 2+ years, maybe you ought to try something less likely to put the people you’re trying to talk to on the defensive.

It’ll be easier eh? You mean like this?

http://slackerslive.servegame.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=594&start=0&sid=7069e9da1428051321fa255fe9da40aa

Yeah, all that seriousness really got so much accomplished back then.

Alah wrote:

I’m not here to pick a fight, I’m here to talk. Unfortunately, my responses always seem to be on the defensive because all I have to respond to are charged or inappropriate comments, absurd hyperbole (SS headquarters? Seriously?), sarcastic jabs and questionable behavior which you yourself have admitted to engaging in. Would you want to talk to me or take me seriously if I were doing the same thing to you? Think about it.

Thought about it… And seeing as I can’t tell the difference, sure why not? I’ve been told I have great communication skills. So I’d have no problem getting my point across one way or another. Watching tactics like his and others has really paid off.

http://www.dpwr.net/alahmnat/2008/08/05/an-open-letter/

Alahmat has responded to Hoikas over at Alah’s blog. Here is what Adam wrote.

Hoikas wrote:

This is a prime example of why people don’t come to you. You fly off the handle at the slightest thing. Sure the post probably wasn’t the most tactful thing in the world, and my reports probably didn’t come off all that great to you, but you know what? Maybe there is a message behind all of this. Maybe people are doing this because there is a problem, but feel that even attempting to communicate it to you will accomplish nothing at all. I know that is how I feel, and I know for a fact that others feel this way too. So are you going to continue to be a part of the problem? Or will you be a *real* man and become part of the solution?

And here is what Alah wrote. I think it’s best that I break it down piece by piece. Word for word from quote to quote.

Alah wrote:

Okay, so that’s how it is, then. I’m doing everything I can think of to give you an avenue to discuss the problems you have with the MOUL forum, and in return you insult me.

Yeah Hoikas, LEAVE ALAHMAHT ALONE!!!! HE IS JUST A HUMAN!!!

Alah wrote:

What, exactly, would you like me to do to be a part of this “solution” of yours, since trying to behave like an adult and talk to you personally doesn’t seem to be cutting it? Your behavior on the forums, both in the locked thread and through the abuse of the post reporting feature, was out of line and pointing that fact out does not constitute “flying off the handle”. Rather than even make an attempt to communicate your problems rationally, you instead went straight for the most obnoxious way of making your point as humanly possible. Flooding the post reporter with 22 identical (and occasionally sarcastic) reports is not a good way to get me to take you seriously, nor is insinuating that the mods outright refuse to tolerate alternative viewpoints and diversions in conversations when we have been demonstrably trying to ensure that everyone can have their voice heard while maintaining some semblance of order.

Hear that? It’s out of line to report other people talking about the userki, which is a HACK, I guess this means it’s ok to discuss hacking as long as you’ve promised to purify yourself in the holy basin on a regular basis. PRAISE RAND!!! DUNK

Alah wrote:

Maybe the reason we keep reacting the way we do when you and your post-mates show up is because you never attempt to do the adult thing and talk to us in a serious, sarcasm-free manner. Instead, you pull juvenile stunts and defy any efforts made by either the moderators or the admins at Cyan to discuss your problems. I would expect such behavior from a 5th grader having a temper tantrum, and that is how I respond to it.

I applaud you Alah, how very adult of you to say something like that.

Alah wrote:

You want a serious discussion, try doing it without the overblown attitude and sarcasm, you’re likely to get farther that way.

Shorter Alah: I had my funny bone removed at an early age and am in fact allergic to sarcasm. Please don’t use it around me or I might break out in a horrible rash.

Alah wrote:

Sempler may be right, being overly nice is just politics and platitudes, but there is something to be said for tact: people will take you more seriously, and be more willing to listen to what you have to say, if you don’t act like a jerk and ignore olive branches when they’re extended in good faith.

I thought it was a nice gesture of him to take the time and patience to take something that happened over at the MOUL forum and put it on his blog for discussion. Not one single moderator has done the same thing! They could learn something from him.

Alah wrote:

If you’re still interested in being part of a serious discussion, I’m still willing to listen. You’re free to completely ignore my offer, of course, but I can’t think of a good reason why you wouldn’t at least try to make your point since I’m giving you the opportunity. Trust me, I have enough other things to do that if I were going to blow you off and ignore what you had to say, I wouldn’t be asking in the first place.

Really… Hoikas has been going out of his way reporting posts in threads about the userki, and telling Alah his thoughts on the situations. Come on Hoikas, let him know what you’re really thinking.